I had a prof in bible college who came out of the 70's "late great planet earth" wave. He laid it out just like you did. that was in the early 80's. Now , over 40 years later it still has not gained as much traction as it should, but hopefully we're gaining. Thanks for a great layout. Well done.
Thank you Paul. Satan is very good at his job. This deception is very deep in Evangelical circles. With some very smart people too. The whole Dallas Seminary teach this nonsense.
I am blessed to have stumbled on (been led!) to all of you who understand this. I've been captive to the dispens for years, but am breaking free and learning to escape their narrative and lens. I do wonder what to do with Ezekiel 48 - that Temple. I assume it is the Temple the Jews would have built had they been obedient after their exile. idk. In modern times, Hwood has mesmerized the public into expecting a superman-type to come and rescue them; thus the rapture. I honestly can't see how to get through to them. And worse, their narrow-focused-on-themselves and the US blinds them to all God is doing overseas. We have so much work to do and evangelicals don't even know how to pray aright. Guess we be the good ol' Gideon's army. Thanks for your work here.
Sounds exactly like the interpretation that the @DanceOfLifePodcast is representing. Very happy to see more Christian creators focusing on the key to understand the Biblical end times prophecies with sound principles. This is the foundation that establishes a historicist perspective. The second key is to clear the millennial kingdom which is now, as Christ is king and reigns right now from the right hand of God. We need to share the truth because the very end of the end is only what has not been fulfilled from Revelation yet. We will probably live through it.
Revelation using the historicist perspective paints a vivid image of the last stage of the world: The final anti-Christ system will be ruling over the whole Earth. It will be in the image of the first one, now set up by the beast with two horns aka. the false prophet. It will again persecute the saints. Now enhanced with modern tech. It will be ridden by the false Catholic lead christian church. Then the bowl judgements will start to be poured out on it and those who took the mark. Then at the 7th bowl, coinciding with the 7th trumpet and 7th seal Christ will return, the dead will be raised, judgment given and creation renewed. It's time to put all our hope in Christ alone and let go of the false hopes we might have in worldly things. Trust in Him who has the power to keep us from the evil one to the very end and testify boldly of the Gospel. We still have time. These are ahead of us, but once the bowl judgements drop, there's no more repentance, the elect are sealed in complete number, God's wraith will be manifest but the elect will be spared. Then all evil will be destroyed by Christ's appearance if his full glory and we will enter his rest forever in the new Earth. It's important to have the right perspective to truly find peace and to place your trust where it truly belongs: in Jesus.
Geoff, John Nelson Derby did not invent the ‘modern day eschatology in the 1830’s. Have you considered the many early church fathers who spoke of the pre-tribulation rapture? Ephraim the Syrian (4th Century) is one of them. With respect, best regards Michael.
You are correct. Some early believers spoke of a pre-tribulation rapture. Regarding Ephraim the Syrian, I have read his entire Wiki page and cannot find a reference to him being a proponent of a pre-trib rapture. He was a Syriac church leader and a bit of a mystic from what I can gather.
Great question Mikey. There is great confusion about the meanings of ‘replace’ and ‘fulfilled’. They are different words with completely different meanings. Clearly, Jesus fulfilled the Abrahamic covenant, He did not replace it. We moved on to a better covenant in His blood. See Hebrews 8. Yahweh works with covenants, not man-made doctrines.
I had my first encounter with the Holy Spirit when I was 11, in my treehouse just after my dad’s funeral. I was in the crows nest with the wind rocking me back and forth, asking daddy if God really needed him in Heaven more than we needed him with us and if Heaven was really a better place than our house with us and the dogs. The wind stopped and I had the sensation of hot honey pouring onto my head, flowing down over my face and into my heart. I then experienced the comfort of knowing that daddy was alright and that I’d see him again someday. John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Thank you Steve for sharing this. I love hearing about people's encounters with Jesus. This is the heart of worship to me. Blessings Steve. I have shared this to Notes. Hope you don't mind. It will be a great encouragement to many.
Excellent work! This is what I believe as well, except you finished your article without using the word Jesuit even once. I believe all of this Zionist/Dispensationalism was created by the Jesuits as a response to the Reformation, with the end goal of creating a Jewish scapegoat to blame for all of the worlds problems, and to collapse both Talmudic Judaism and Protestantism at a future time, creating a great falling away from the faith, and ushering everyone back into the loving arms of that GREAT WHORE OF BABYLON, the Roman Catholic Church.
Yes, the Jesuits and their Counter-Reformation initiatives were probably behind most of it, but it is hard to prove beyond a shadow of doubt. They are VERY good at not leaving a trail. So I deliberately left their influence out, but there will come a day when the tap will open.
This makes sense. However, I do not understand how Mat 24 was fulfilled in 70 AD as Mat 24:29-31 have not been fulfilled. I have ways read Mat 24:1-2 and Mat 24:3-25:46 as separate discussions. The first is in Jerusalem. The second is on The Mount of Olives about three miles away.
Very good pickup Brian. You are correct. I was a little loose with the Matthew 24 reference. From verses 29 onwards Jesus focuses on His return, which, as you rightly pointed out, has not happened yet. But the key is for us to be ready when it does happen. Thank you for your input.
So ,do you think Mathew 24:29 parallels with The resurrection/ rapture and Daniel 12? Possibly also the 6th seal and our arrival shown in the seventh seal? Seems likely.
Interesting, “The gap was invented by John Nelson Darby in the 1830s — not by the apostles, not by the early church, not by the Reformers.” There is a lot of confusion when it comes to how the Bible deals with numbers. We have enormous trouble counting to 3 and dismiss the ‘only sign’ of Jesus’ resurrection. Squashing it out of proportion to fit it into the nonsense timeline enforced by Rome!
Equally interesting, the Apostles didn’t invent trinity theory either, but most have no trouble accepting that construct.
Yeah, I wasn’t pointing to the gap, just the paradox of accepting that some things came via the Apostles and some didn’t—apparently.
The idea that we can pick a bit of doctrine from wherever we want when it suits a certain dogma is poor practice. Whatever came after the Apostles is not to replace what they taught!
It means, to put it frankly (who ever frank is) that trinity theory is not something the Apostles or Jesus taught. They did teach the human only Jesus who is not God, but has the same God we do.
I'm against Christian Zionism myself, but you have misinterpreted the 70 Weeks prophecy to be speaking about a historical timeline of 490 years when this is in fact not the true, hebraic interpretation of the prophecy. It is a false construct of the Greco-Roman mind that does not understand the keeping of time presented in Leviticus chapter 25. In addition to Leviticus 25, I invite everyone to look at the 70 "weeks" as properly and perfectly connected to The Feast of "Weeks", which is the same as Pentecost. There are 49 days from Wave Sheaf Day to Pentecost. With this proper understanding, the biblical numerology of the prophecy is unlocked. A "week" represents 49 years---not seven. Everything changes when this proper and methodical approach is taken. God bless you
The ancient jewish time keeping, "God's true calendar" was a calendar method that followed the yearly solar cycle. It's different than our way to do the same, it didn't require leap years for example. But there's no difference in the outcome. Ancient time keeping followed solar years so that festivals were synced with the seasons every year. What it means is that the method was different but the outcome wasn't. We can rely on the fact that a full year meant the same time period back than as now. There's a lot of nuance and historical and cultural details to take into account how different methods were in use and when, and it's also hard if not impossible to reconstruct how the system changes overlapped.
Regardless, God preserved the historical facts in a reliable manner so that it can be used to corroborate the evidence from the Word because he is the sovereign author of not just the Bible but all of history too. Daniel's prophecies should be interpreted in this light, so it's valid to apply our current way of tracking it which is 365.25 day years. The rest is distraction which makes it impossible to align prophecy with history and as a result you get lost about where we are now and how to interpret what's coming as well as what happened in the last 2000 years. God's word is impartial as such has something for every generation of believers to benefit from, that's just based on His eternal character. Consistent day to year interpretation matches our know history and puts us firmly in the last Church age: Laodicea, the age which is also characterized from other scriptures as full of deception. Keep clear of the distractions!
I have seen comments like yours many times over the years. Jesus said “you WILL know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”. You proclaim a form of agnosticism that is incompatible with the Way of Christ. It seems intellectual to say “we can’t know” and then proceed with sophisticated and worldly thinking, but what you are saying is not in line with God’s simple revelation, once it is properly understood. His time keeping is plainly revealed in Leviticus 23 and 25, among other key places. May God lead you, and not empty philosophical nuances of men, if indeed you are a follower of Christ.
Neither is the word "days" found in the original Hebrew language. Go and see. Daniel purposely left out the word "yom" and instead used "ereb-boker" for a very specific reason. This is detailed in Chapter 6 of my first book. God bless!
Correct. Daniel used dawn and dusk to symbolise a day. I always have a primary rule when reading apocalyptic literature: It is always symbolic. So "ereb-boker" symbolises a full day, and a full day symbolises a full year. If you keep that consistent approach to unravelling the symbols, right through Daniel 7-12, and ALL Revelation, you cannot go wrong. Mix them up, you are stuffed.
Greetings Geoff, I recommend you check out my work 100% free. You can download the first three chapters of my book using this link (it's the first red button): https://www.bibleprophecyunlocked.com/free
I'd love to pick up this conversation if you take an honest look at my core body of work, which is found in the first three chapters.
Excellent explanation, sir. I’ve not heard it explained this way before. Thank you.
I was stirred a few years ago to look at the seven seals Revelation 6 and 7 more closely. I did so reluctantly.
Several things stood out to me for the first time, but the most significant was the appearance of a vast multitude before the throne of God in the seventh chapter not referred to previously. A people described as having come out of a great tribulation. I’ve come to see such as a type of “rescue” or deliverance for the faithful of the Lord.
I see these people as the martyrs slaughtered by the papacy in the dark ages. I don’t think it is future, but already happened. I may be wrong, but I think it fits with the two witnesses of Rev 11. Revelation is largely a juxtaposition. Does this make sense?
Really appreciate your article Geoff. I mostly agree, except for the church history view of Revelation. I have come more to the concept that Revelation is mostly about the Jewish wars and the climax in AD 70. The entire New Testament is the transition age, the last days of the corrupted Old Covenant system. The New Covenant grows out of and upon the Old Covenant. Just my thoughts. Keep up your great writing.
Thank you, Alan. A consistent application of the day-to-year principle in Revelation and Daniel 7-12 kind of blows your interpretation up, but I do get how you can see it that way. Take a fresh look at this from the perspective I have outlined. It changes everything.
Not sure I said in here that the second coming had happened. It has not. But placing the prophecy of Revelation into the future denies the glory of our creator who sits outside of time, and sees all past, present, and future, with 20/20 vision. Using history as our guide, we can clearly see the fulfillment in our past of the events prophesied in Revelation. You can check out my article linked below:
I had a prof in bible college who came out of the 70's "late great planet earth" wave. He laid it out just like you did. that was in the early 80's. Now , over 40 years later it still has not gained as much traction as it should, but hopefully we're gaining. Thanks for a great layout. Well done.
Thank you Paul. Satan is very good at his job. This deception is very deep in Evangelical circles. With some very smart people too. The whole Dallas Seminary teach this nonsense.
Excellent, thanks well done 👍
The Berean Call has many great programs on this subject.
I am blessed to have stumbled on (been led!) to all of you who understand this. I've been captive to the dispens for years, but am breaking free and learning to escape their narrative and lens. I do wonder what to do with Ezekiel 48 - that Temple. I assume it is the Temple the Jews would have built had they been obedient after their exile. idk. In modern times, Hwood has mesmerized the public into expecting a superman-type to come and rescue them; thus the rapture. I honestly can't see how to get through to them. And worse, their narrow-focused-on-themselves and the US blinds them to all God is doing overseas. We have so much work to do and evangelicals don't even know how to pray aright. Guess we be the good ol' Gideon's army. Thanks for your work here.
Is it possible Ezekiel 48 is prophesying the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21? Check it out.
No, there are sacrifices and those are finished now.
Sounds exactly like the interpretation that the @DanceOfLifePodcast is representing. Very happy to see more Christian creators focusing on the key to understand the Biblical end times prophecies with sound principles. This is the foundation that establishes a historicist perspective. The second key is to clear the millennial kingdom which is now, as Christ is king and reigns right now from the right hand of God. We need to share the truth because the very end of the end is only what has not been fulfilled from Revelation yet. We will probably live through it.
What do you think they ver end of the end is?
Revelation using the historicist perspective paints a vivid image of the last stage of the world: The final anti-Christ system will be ruling over the whole Earth. It will be in the image of the first one, now set up by the beast with two horns aka. the false prophet. It will again persecute the saints. Now enhanced with modern tech. It will be ridden by the false Catholic lead christian church. Then the bowl judgements will start to be poured out on it and those who took the mark. Then at the 7th bowl, coinciding with the 7th trumpet and 7th seal Christ will return, the dead will be raised, judgment given and creation renewed. It's time to put all our hope in Christ alone and let go of the false hopes we might have in worldly things. Trust in Him who has the power to keep us from the evil one to the very end and testify boldly of the Gospel. We still have time. These are ahead of us, but once the bowl judgements drop, there's no more repentance, the elect are sealed in complete number, God's wraith will be manifest but the elect will be spared. Then all evil will be destroyed by Christ's appearance if his full glory and we will enter his rest forever in the new Earth. It's important to have the right perspective to truly find peace and to place your trust where it truly belongs: in Jesus.
Geoff, John Nelson Derby did not invent the ‘modern day eschatology in the 1830’s. Have you considered the many early church fathers who spoke of the pre-tribulation rapture? Ephraim the Syrian (4th Century) is one of them. With respect, best regards Michael.
https://www.britannica.com/art/Syriac-literature
This is an interesting read too.
You are correct. Some early believers spoke of a pre-tribulation rapture. Regarding Ephraim the Syrian, I have read his entire Wiki page and cannot find a reference to him being a proponent of a pre-trib rapture. He was a Syriac church leader and a bit of a mystic from what I can gather.
Geoff, do you believe that the 'Church' is the replacement of Israel which I am finding prevalent today? Succintly; the replacement theology doctrine?
Great question Mikey. There is great confusion about the meanings of ‘replace’ and ‘fulfilled’. They are different words with completely different meanings. Clearly, Jesus fulfilled the Abrahamic covenant, He did not replace it. We moved on to a better covenant in His blood. See Hebrews 8. Yahweh works with covenants, not man-made doctrines.
I am not of any denomination. Purebred Jesus Plus ZERO. But I have spent many years in CoC when I was a young Christian.
Thanks for putting this up. You must be Church of Christ!
At some stage in the distant past, yes.
I had my first encounter with the Holy Spirit when I was 11, in my treehouse just after my dad’s funeral. I was in the crows nest with the wind rocking me back and forth, asking daddy if God really needed him in Heaven more than we needed him with us and if Heaven was really a better place than our house with us and the dogs. The wind stopped and I had the sensation of hot honey pouring onto my head, flowing down over my face and into my heart. I then experienced the comfort of knowing that daddy was alright and that I’d see him again someday. John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Thank you Steve for sharing this. I love hearing about people's encounters with Jesus. This is the heart of worship to me. Blessings Steve. I have shared this to Notes. Hope you don't mind. It will be a great encouragement to many.
Excellent work! This is what I believe as well, except you finished your article without using the word Jesuit even once. I believe all of this Zionist/Dispensationalism was created by the Jesuits as a response to the Reformation, with the end goal of creating a Jewish scapegoat to blame for all of the worlds problems, and to collapse both Talmudic Judaism and Protestantism at a future time, creating a great falling away from the faith, and ushering everyone back into the loving arms of that GREAT WHORE OF BABYLON, the Roman Catholic Church.
Yes, the Jesuits and their Counter-Reformation initiatives were probably behind most of it, but it is hard to prove beyond a shadow of doubt. They are VERY good at not leaving a trail. So I deliberately left their influence out, but there will come a day when the tap will open.
This makes sense. However, I do not understand how Mat 24 was fulfilled in 70 AD as Mat 24:29-31 have not been fulfilled. I have ways read Mat 24:1-2 and Mat 24:3-25:46 as separate discussions. The first is in Jerusalem. The second is on The Mount of Olives about three miles away.
Very good pickup Brian. You are correct. I was a little loose with the Matthew 24 reference. From verses 29 onwards Jesus focuses on His return, which, as you rightly pointed out, has not happened yet. But the key is for us to be ready when it does happen. Thank you for your input.
So ,do you think Mathew 24:29 parallels with The resurrection/ rapture and Daniel 12? Possibly also the 6th seal and our arrival shown in the seventh seal? Seems likely.
Interesting, “The gap was invented by John Nelson Darby in the 1830s — not by the apostles, not by the early church, not by the Reformers.” There is a lot of confusion when it comes to how the Bible deals with numbers. We have enormous trouble counting to 3 and dismiss the ‘only sign’ of Jesus’ resurrection. Squashing it out of proportion to fit it into the nonsense timeline enforced by Rome!
Equally interesting, the Apostles didn’t invent trinity theory either, but most have no trouble accepting that construct.
The gap was not invented by anyone. It's a fact of scripture.
Yeah, I wasn’t pointing to the gap, just the paradox of accepting that some things came via the Apostles and some didn’t—apparently.
The idea that we can pick a bit of doctrine from wherever we want when it suits a certain dogma is poor practice. Whatever came after the Apostles is not to replace what they taught!
Whatever came after the Apostles is not to replace what they taught! What does that mean? Thx.
It means, to put it frankly (who ever frank is) that trinity theory is not something the Apostles or Jesus taught. They did teach the human only Jesus who is not God, but has the same God we do.
I would be careful not pick a bit of doctrine from wherever I want when it suits a certain dogma. Who does that?
Christianity
Seriously? It takes some amazing hermeneutical jumps to read a rapture as “fact”.
What we look forward to is the coming of our king to usher in the eternal state, and thus we will ever be with the Lord.
I'm against Christian Zionism myself, but you have misinterpreted the 70 Weeks prophecy to be speaking about a historical timeline of 490 years when this is in fact not the true, hebraic interpretation of the prophecy. It is a false construct of the Greco-Roman mind that does not understand the keeping of time presented in Leviticus chapter 25. In addition to Leviticus 25, I invite everyone to look at the 70 "weeks" as properly and perfectly connected to The Feast of "Weeks", which is the same as Pentecost. There are 49 days from Wave Sheaf Day to Pentecost. With this proper understanding, the biblical numerology of the prophecy is unlocked. A "week" represents 49 years---not seven. Everything changes when this proper and methodical approach is taken. God bless you
The ancient jewish time keeping, "God's true calendar" was a calendar method that followed the yearly solar cycle. It's different than our way to do the same, it didn't require leap years for example. But there's no difference in the outcome. Ancient time keeping followed solar years so that festivals were synced with the seasons every year. What it means is that the method was different but the outcome wasn't. We can rely on the fact that a full year meant the same time period back than as now. There's a lot of nuance and historical and cultural details to take into account how different methods were in use and when, and it's also hard if not impossible to reconstruct how the system changes overlapped.
Regardless, God preserved the historical facts in a reliable manner so that it can be used to corroborate the evidence from the Word because he is the sovereign author of not just the Bible but all of history too. Daniel's prophecies should be interpreted in this light, so it's valid to apply our current way of tracking it which is 365.25 day years. The rest is distraction which makes it impossible to align prophecy with history and as a result you get lost about where we are now and how to interpret what's coming as well as what happened in the last 2000 years. God's word is impartial as such has something for every generation of believers to benefit from, that's just based on His eternal character. Consistent day to year interpretation matches our know history and puts us firmly in the last Church age: Laodicea, the age which is also characterized from other scriptures as full of deception. Keep clear of the distractions!
I have seen comments like yours many times over the years. Jesus said “you WILL know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”. You proclaim a form of agnosticism that is incompatible with the Way of Christ. It seems intellectual to say “we can’t know” and then proceed with sophisticated and worldly thinking, but what you are saying is not in line with God’s simple revelation, once it is properly understood. His time keeping is plainly revealed in Leviticus 23 and 25, among other key places. May God lead you, and not empty philosophical nuances of men, if indeed you are a follower of Christ.
So explain the 2,300 days of Daniel 8. There are no “weeks” in there.
Neither is the word "days" found in the original Hebrew language. Go and see. Daniel purposely left out the word "yom" and instead used "ereb-boker" for a very specific reason. This is detailed in Chapter 6 of my first book. God bless!
Correct. Daniel used dawn and dusk to symbolise a day. I always have a primary rule when reading apocalyptic literature: It is always symbolic. So "ereb-boker" symbolises a full day, and a full day symbolises a full year. If you keep that consistent approach to unravelling the symbols, right through Daniel 7-12, and ALL Revelation, you cannot go wrong. Mix them up, you are stuffed.
Greetings Geoff, I recommend you check out my work 100% free. You can download the first three chapters of my book using this link (it's the first red button): https://www.bibleprophecyunlocked.com/free
I'd love to pick up this conversation if you take an honest look at my core body of work, which is found in the first three chapters.
Sincerely,
Abraham O.
Excellent explanation, sir. I’ve not heard it explained this way before. Thank you.
I was stirred a few years ago to look at the seven seals Revelation 6 and 7 more closely. I did so reluctantly.
Several things stood out to me for the first time, but the most significant was the appearance of a vast multitude before the throne of God in the seventh chapter not referred to previously. A people described as having come out of a great tribulation. I’ve come to see such as a type of “rescue” or deliverance for the faithful of the Lord.
Your thoughts?
I see these people as the martyrs slaughtered by the papacy in the dark ages. I don’t think it is future, but already happened. I may be wrong, but I think it fits with the two witnesses of Rev 11. Revelation is largely a juxtaposition. Does this make sense?
Really appreciate your article Geoff. I mostly agree, except for the church history view of Revelation. I have come more to the concept that Revelation is mostly about the Jewish wars and the climax in AD 70. The entire New Testament is the transition age, the last days of the corrupted Old Covenant system. The New Covenant grows out of and upon the Old Covenant. Just my thoughts. Keep up your great writing.
Thank you, Alan. A consistent application of the day-to-year principle in Revelation and Daniel 7-12 kind of blows your interpretation up, but I do get how you can see it that way. Take a fresh look at this from the perspective I have outlined. It changes everything.
Thanks KChat. Amen!
This 40 years is the fulfilment of the typology of the Hebrew’s 40 years in the wilderness of Exodus.
This article spoke truth, but then missed one very important issue - the return of Christ, the second coming.
If you believe all things are finished, on what basis can you possibly believe that there is "one more thing" to do? Namely the second coming?
Not sure I said in here that the second coming had happened. It has not. But placing the prophecy of Revelation into the future denies the glory of our creator who sits outside of time, and sees all past, present, and future, with 20/20 vision. Using history as our guide, we can clearly see the fulfillment in our past of the events prophesied in Revelation. You can check out my article linked below:
https://open.substack.com/pub/potentdisciplebootcamp/p/the-seven-churches-and-the-seven?r=3axjaf&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true